Great Interview

Amy Goodman of Democracy Now! recently interviewed both John Dean, Whitehouse Counsel under Nixon and Daniel Ellsberg, the leaker of "The Pentagon Papers". They offer a good historical insight into the abuse of presidential powers. Here is an excerpt:

JOHN DEAN: Let me give you a very quick bottom line on that. Nobody died as a result of the so-called abuses of power during Watergate. Theoretically, if you include in their the secret bombing of Cambodia and things like that, which really never did get into the litany, you might say that's not true. But in the classic litany of Watergate activities, nobody died.

DANIEL ELLSBERG: Or even got incapacitated, since they did back off from beating me up.

JOHN DEAN: Right. True. But today, people are dying as a result of the abuses of power. And another point that -- I happened to appear before the Senate a couple of weeks ago to testify on Feingold's resolution of censure, and I thought it was important I go, not as a partisan, but just as somebody who could say, “Hey, if a shot like that had come across the bough of the Nixon White House, it might have gotten the President's attention.” That's why I thought parallel situations today, because one of the things I also discovered, to my amazement, is how little people remember about history. I was being asked questions by people like Lindsey Graham, who was 16 years old when Watergate was going on, but still you would think he would know a little bit more --

AMY GOODMAN: The South Carolina senator.

JOHN DEAN: Yes, the South Carolina senator -- than the level of questions he was asking me, which showed he had no real knowledge of it.

DANIEL ELLSBERG: That’s important, just on what we have been talking about, right? In fact, if I remember, he said that -- just what we were saying. He said to you, “Come on, now. There's no comparison. Nixon was doing domestic crimes for his own good.”

JOHN DEAN: Right.

DANIEL ELLSBERG: And you said -- the point you were making, as I understood -- you said, “You don't understand the history, Senator.” And I believe you were referring to the fact Nixon did claim and believe that he was acting for national security when he committed these domestic crimes, just as the President -- I give President Bush right now every credit for believing that when he wiretaps without warrants against the FISA Act, he's committing domestic crimes for national security. And he almost also believes, with Nixon, when the President does it, it’s not a crime, it’s not illegal. They share it, don’t you believe? They share that attitude.

JOHN DEAN: Well, they certainly have a covey of lawyers who will give them that counsel.

DANIEL ELLSBERG: Who will tell them. Unlike you. I don’t think you would have gave that advice.

JOHN DEAN: I would not give him that counsel. I don't see the Commander-in-Chief clause being read that broadly.